AI improvements master topic

[xezon]

• Investigate what can be done to fix AI bugs and mismatches
• Explore what kind of new AI features and AI difficulties could be added
• Decide whether or not any of the original AI difficulties (Easy, Medium, Hard) should be tweaked or replaced

Potentially include high level AI decision in community survey to get a better overview of what players want from AI.

Advanced AI Mod changes & review

AI survey results

[xezon]

Zeke:

Mismatch: One of them is projectile weapons lacking min range
If a unit fires a projectile weapon to close to itself it causes a mismatch
min range is more of a bandaid than an actual solution, but there doesn't seem to be any better methods to fix it, aside from players consciously keeping proper distance

#212

[ZekeDlyoung]

Fix AI bugs and mismatches I agree with as this will drastically improve performance and make crashes less frequent

We should probably hold off on increasing the actual AI difficulty, the AI will naturally get harder when most of the bugs are fixed

At most I agree with Easy AI getting tweaked to send more units, but the rest should stay relatively the same. If people want more difficulty they can fight other people, or fight against more AIs

I would also be wary of making a poll about AI difficulty, because we've had such polls in the past, and what usually ends up happening is that the PvP crowd votes for harder AI because the current AI bores them, but all this ends up doing is make the game/mod less appealing to comp stompers who are fine with the current AI

[commy2]

Apparently the minrange mismatch fix would involve giving tank weapons a minrange of 5. This does affect PVP games as well.

In my opinion, if a fix for compstomp affects pvp in a way that is not desirable, then we should not apply it.

[xezon]

I am skeptical about not involving community to make decision regarding AI difficulty. We can design survey to get data on who is a regular AI Stomper and who is not. This way we can weigh the results accordingly.

There are some considerations to make:

• Is a harder AI option appealing to pull more casual players to play more Multiplayer?
• Is a harder AI option appealing to pull more PvP players into the AI genre (good for retention)?
• Would harder AI option help the popularity of this Patch overall?

I understand current AI players are happy the way it is (except for the mismatches), but this is just logical, because if they were not happy they would not be playing it right? We don't know what happens if AI becomes better. You may suddenly see twice as many AI Stompers if it gives them a better experience.

Jundiyy mentioned Easy AI is useless. Personally I am no AI regular, but I do agree that Easy AI does not do all that much and I wonder if it can be repurposed in the following way:

• MediumAI becomes EasyAI
• HardAI becomes MediumAI
• BrutalAI (new) becomes HardAI

If players still wanted to stomp EasyAI, they could always play Original version. Our Patch install will always grant full access to Original version natively.

[ZekeDlyoung]

"We can design survey to get data on who is a regular AI Stomper and who is not. This way we can weigh the results accordingly."

Yeah this is what I meant, I didn't say don't make a poll, I just said be wary/carefull, as other players love trolling comp stompers.

And yes easy AI currently is useless

[xezon]

Jundiyy:

Mismatch:
Also mismatch issues with multiplayer AI:
Bulling scaffolds in the AI base within the first minute or so
Attacking/Rushing the AI within the first 2 minutes or so
Hard AI:
1 fix for the Hard AI could be them not slowing down with attacks? At the minimum they keep up the attacks even if they aren't improved otherwise

[MTKing4]

Jundiyy mentioned Easy AI is useless. Personally I am no AI regular, but I do agree that Easy AI does not do all that much and I wonder if it can be repurposed in the following way:

• MediumAI becomes EasyAI

• HardAI becomes MediumAI

• BrutalAI (new) becomes HardAI

Agreed

[ThePredatorBG]

I recommend making a poll about AI changes, so we get as many people's feedback as possible. But maybe in the future combined with other non-AI questions, because we recently had our first poll.

I believe Advanced AI mod 0.98 improved by AEI v2.8 is not only a good source of reference, but also a good candidate for becoming the starting point of our AI. There is a Readme.txt with all the changes made in the archive. The mod changes some of the .ini files to help some of the scripts work, like the Bomb Truck Disguise ability, but those .ini changes can be easily adapted. The mod not only increases the difficulty, but also fixes many issues with the original scripts. I suggest that we ask AEI for permissions to adapt his AI. Tremendous work has been done. Additional difficulty changes, if required, can be made more easily than going the same path over again for the sake of keeping close track of difficulty, ensuring it doesn't go up.

I don't have any observations about AI-triggered mismatches, but it always seemed like AI does increase mismatch occurrence chances. Jundiyy's statements about early mismatch are interesting and can be easily tested. It would be great if we discover which scripts or teams are buggy and cause mismatch.

[Kesanov]

I understand current AI players are happy the way it is (except for the mismatches), but this is just logical, because if they were not happy they would not be playing it right? We don't know what happens if AI becomes better. You may suddenly see twice as many AI Stompers if it gives them a better experience.

I am of the same opinion. For me, there is no reason to play with AI, when it's not challenging enough.

[ZekeDlyoung]

For me, there is no reason to play with AI, when it's not challenging enough.

That may be true for some people, but for others RTS is about the sandbox experience, using the time to unwind from a hard day's work not be more stressed. People can find challenges by fighting other people, but there is no alternative other than AI battles for recreational gaming. Yes, people can just switch back to normal ZH if they just want to comp stomp and chill, but as mentioned the normal ZH AI has many bugs. I for one would just like to see first just the normal ZH AI with fixes, that could already be challenging enough

[MTKing4]

We could make the advanced AI a tickable option in the launcher tool then, you can launch our patch with it on or off but keep it on by default, similar to how contra has options for many things like switching different hotkey sets

[xezon]

We could make the advanced AI a tickable option in the launcher tool then, you can launch our patch with it on or off but keep it on by default, similar to how contra has options for many things like switching different hotkey sets

I am very skeptical of this, because it would increase the complexity to arrange a non-mismatching match session. Any change that alters game state cannot be a simple user choice. Any change that alters local settings/setup only can be a simple user choice.

[MTKing4]

Then make the normal AI option disabled by default for online games

The option could be called something like this:

✅ Old Hard AI (Single player)

[xezon]

A survey will give more clarity on player preferences.